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Older Men and Young Teenage Sex

posted Tuesday, 21 November 2006

Police chief sparks row

over stigma of sex with children


Jeremy Irons and Dominique Swain played Humbert and Lolita
in the 1997 film of Nabokov's Lolita.
The novel's unsettling appeal is the story
about a suave and silver-tongued European emigre
who seduces a 12-year-old American girl,
was published 50 years ago this year.
Lolita is unlike most controversial books
in that its edge has not dulled over time.

It is certainly the case that

we shall one day need to reconsider

Unenforceable laws are a waste of paperwork,

and only last week a YouGov poll showed

a third of British girls already thumbing

their noses at this one by engaging

in sexual activity below the age of 16

The police’s leading child protection officer has said that men who have sex with children should not be classed as “paedophiles” if the victim is between the ages of 13 and 15 years old.

Terry Grange, the Association of Chief Police Officers’ (Acpo) spokesman on child protection and managing sex offenders, said only those who targeted prepubescent children deserved to be labelled and treated as “paedophiles”.

He added that the term “child pornography” should apply only to images of children aged below 13, for the same reason. “Child porn is 12 and under,” said Grange, who is chief constable of Dyfed-Powys police. “For me, that sort of thing, paedophilia, is [with] prepubescent children.”

Grange’s views, set out in an interview with The Sunday Times, is expected to spark debate among policy makers and child protection professionals.

Many believe that anyone having sexual relations with a child under 16 is not only committing an offence, but should be treated as a paedophile.

Michele Elliott, director of the charity Kidscape, called Grange’s views “very disturbing, especially from a police officer”.

She said: “Most people would say that no adult should be having sex with a child under the age of 16, and that if they do, they are sexually attracted to children and if they are, they are a paedophile.”

The law sets the age of sexual consent at 16. Anyone having sexual intercourse with a child under that age is deemed to have committed an offence. However, the offence is classed as “unlawful sexual intercourse” if the child is 13 years old or more and consenting. If they are under 13, the offence is rape.

Grange says his views — which he emphasises are personal — reflect these subtleties in the law, which is intended to allow a pragmatic approach to be taken in cases of young adults having consensual sex with children between the ages of
13 and 15.

“It is much more of an issue for me if a child is under 13,” said Grange. “I think the closer they get to 16 the more it becomes a grey area and I think everyone in the field of dealing with sexual health and sexual activity acknowledges that.

“As it [the age] goes down so I think the liability of the adult gets greater, so if the girl is 13 and the adult is in his twenties I am not particularly prone to accept the ‘I thought she was 16’ excuse. And if she is 12, it is rape.”

Asked how he would define paedophilia, Grange said: “ We are talking about very young people [when] it is paedophilia, and I wouldn’t want to mix up kids who are just the wrong side of 16 with paedophiles.”

“I don’t actually personally adhere to the 15-year-old being with a 20-year-old boyfriend being paedophilia, or even if the boyfriend is 30.”

Many European countries, including Austria, Bulgaria and Croatia, set a lower age of consent at 14, while in Spain it is 13. In Britain studies have suggested that a third of girls and a sixth of boys have sex before 16. Daniel Foggo/Sunday Times

When is underage sex under age?

Given the fussing and carrying-on, you would think the poor man had advocated massed orgies with infants. He hadn’t.

All that happened was that Terry Grange, suggested greater clarity in the labelling of sex offenders: for instance, he says, it is incorrect to say that those who have sex with underage teenagers are paedophiles — and if we say they are, we risk overestimating the scale of the problem of paedophilia.

With predictable fury, Michele Elliott, the director of the children’s charity Kidscape, rounded on the policeman’s wish to reclassify those who have sex with youngsters between 13 and 16: “He is saying they are not paedophiles and they bloody well are.”

If Miss Elliott would care to borrow my dictionary, she would discover that they bloody well aren’t. A paedophile is defined as one who is sexually attracted to children; children are defined as those between birth and puberty.

What our teen fanciers are, in fact, is ephebophiliacs: adults attracted to postpubescent adolescents.

Now I grant you ephebophilia is not a word that would sit easily in a News of the World headline but the distinction is actually important.

The reason for the revulsion felt for paedophilia is not just sympathy for the trauma suffered by the child, nor a judgment of the abuse of imbalanced power, even though both are real enough.

It goes deeper; it goes to the defiance of a law of Nature, whereby to have sex with somebody who has not reached sexual maturity is to have sex with somebody who is, if you will, not “ready”.

By contrast, to have sex with somebody who has passed the age of puberty is merely to defy a law of Man — and a pretty arbitrary law at that.

We cannot agree between one border and the next at what age a boy or girl is emotionally developed enough to give informed consent: Malta and The Netherlands think 12, Canada and Italy weigh in at 14, cautious Greece holds out for 15 and the good burghers of Iceland go as high as 17.

A lad in Dover with a girlfriend of 15 may not have his wicked way, but if they hop a ferry to Calais they’ll be fine.

Meanwhile, in some American states not only may you have sex at 13 but you may marry at the same age, allowing for the theoretical absurdity that a man could marry in, say, New Hampshire but should he bring his bride to old Hampshire for their honeymoon he could be imprisoned for statutory rape.

Quite why it is 16 in the United Kingdom is not clear. To my knowledge no studies have been done to show that the Canadians pay for the laxity of 14 with posses of the psychologically disturbed teenagers that we are spared by our relative strictness.

Sooner or later, one imagines, at least the Europeans will have to come to some agreement. Yet for all that I’d give teeth to be the fly on the wall at that particular European Union committee, this is not, for the moment at least, an argument in favour of changing our own age of consent.

It is certainly the case that we shall one day need to reconsider; unenforceable laws are a waste of paperwork, and only last week a YouGov poll showed a third of British girls already thumbing their noses at this one by engaging in sexual activity below the age of 16.

(This applies to only half as many boys below the age of 16, though no doubt that’s less for want of trying than the convention that insists that no self-respecting 14-year-old girl would be seen dead with a boyfriend of her own age.)

It is also the case that there are heartening signs from elsewhere that one can lower the age of consent while preserving safeguards; for instance, although Malta allows for consent at 12, it rises to 18 if the older partner has any authority over the younger. Predatory teachers, priests or care-home workers must therefore keep their grubby hands to themselves.

Furthermore, when it comes not to the seriously predatory but to a young couple where one is perhaps 18 and the other 14, the law has far less to do with whether they choose to have sex than does peer habit: when I was young my circle enjoyed a group dumping of virginities at around 16 or 17; these days, for many, it has just shifted forward by a couple of years.

Nevertheless, it is safe to assume that for the time being most of us will continue to prefer that there is a legal stalling process, however slight, that might encourage some young people to cautionary second thoughts — and given that the age of consent currently coincides with the age until which we try to force some education into their heads, it is very probably in their better interests to keep it.

But then, the lambasted Terry Grange wasn’t arguing to change it, either. He was simply asking a society already unhealthily in thrall to paedophilia to think twice before using the word.

He correctly points us to a difference between the tabloid nation’s favourite bogeyman, a kind of latterday Fagin beckoning a crooked finger through kindergarten gates, and the excited hormones of a young man in the close presence of a buxom, bosomy come-hither girlie who, in other cultures and, indeed, at other times in this one, he would be perfectly entitled to embrace.

As long as the law is the law, he deserves a smacked paw if he gives in to his excitement. But he does not deserve the same opprobrium as the bogeyman — and nor do we deserve that our police forces’ time be needlessly spent in his pursuit rather than that of the far rarer, but far more dangerous, bogeyman proper. Carol Sarler/Times Online

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1. antisocialwatch left...
Monday, 20 November 2006 12:20 pm :: http://antisocialwatch.blogspot.com/2006

A chief constable has launched himself into a very controversial subject area. Terry Grange, chief constable of Dyfed-Powys Police, has said that men who have sex with girls over the age of thirteen are not paedophiles.

At first glance most people would probably be shocked at him saying that.......but to step into the arena I'd have to say that in a sense he is right.

There is a massive world of difference between say, a young man of nineteen or twenty having ( yes unlawful) sex with a fifteen year old who has given full consent and someone who has shown a pattern of abusing babies or five year olds, say someone like Gary Glitter who no one would argue is indeed a paedophile.

A paedophile is surely someone who preys on victims who cannot defend themselves or have the strength to even attempt to fight, or to consent, I think its unfair to call the young man a paedophile for making, maybe simply an error of judgement.

That's not to say that young teenage women shouldn't be protected but some young girls do act like very sexual women and not at all like their age and some of the conversations I have actually heard from 14 & 15 year old girls around here would make your hair curl.


2. serna left...
Tuesday, 13 February 2007 6:04 pm

i think all this stuff is bad old men having sex with young girls that is sick in the head the guys to do that to young girls! i wouldnt want that to happen to me or anyone in my family also my friends!!


3. bob loves you left...
Tuesday, 13 February 2007 6:10 pm

no guy should do this to any lil girl. i think it is nasty if they want to have kids they should have them with people there age and not no one younger then them!! plus the girl should no better to but they cant get out of it because the guy hit them or over things!! to you old men stop being with lil girls and get someone older and also get a life! what guy wants to be with a lil girl so stop!!!


4. bash left...
Monday, 26 February 2007 6:42 pm

i dont understand why men would want to be having sex with teens. most of the teen pregnancys are coused by an adult male im just 16 but this is curiouse to me. thats just not right that adult men are having sex


5. Angry Mum left...
Wednesday, 28 February 2007 12:41 pm

My son is 20 and has been charged with underage sex recently. We are waiting to go to crown court. My son is very scared and is not mature in an adult sense. He did it after a drunken night out and it happened once and only once but despite numerous attempts to discuss things with her and her family, they reported him and he was arrested. Unfortunately, due to his lack of experience in these matters he confessed all to the policeman believing honesty was the best policy. He has apologised and is full of remorse. But this is not enough for the law who insist he is criminalised and are determined to ruin his whole life and future. All for one, silly and stupid mistake. I agree what he has done is wrong and deserves, at least, a warning, but he has not done something so wrong that he deserves a sex offender label on him and possibly a jail sentance as well. Violent criminals get away with far less.